It’s really is tough, and you have to just keep writing, keep making
phone calls, keep pounding that pavement, and doing what you want to do. – Antonia Bogdanovich
Antonia Bogdanovich, Phantom Halo (2014), Sleep No More (2022)
The second full-length film of a future legendary director, where he reveals techniques that he will reuse in the other eleven renowned films he directed. This film was not the director’s only foray into Film Noir, going to next make one of the top Film Noirs of all time.
Automate Transcript Antonia Bogdanovich
00:00:00:00 – 00:00:25:21
John Cornelison
I’m very excited to be joined today by actor, writer, and director Antonia Bogdanovich. We will be speaking about her 2014 film Phantom Halo, which is being released as a director’s cut titled Sleep No More (2022). Welcome, Antonia. Great, thanks. All right. Thank you for coming. Tell me, what inspired you to revisit and create a director’s cut, Sleep No More (2022).
00:00:25:22 – 00:00:29:22
John Cornelison
Nearly a decade after the original release of Phantom Halo?
00:00:30:00 – 00:00:56:17
Well, there was some issues with the distribution at the time. It didn’t really get a proper distribution, and so I felt really disappointed and quite frankly, like a failure as a filmmaker because, you know, I make films for people to watch and enjoy. I make films for my audience and of course, as a form of expression. But, of course, movies are meant to be watched.
00:00:56:18 – 00:01:20:13
So that was part of the impetus. My father passing away in January 2022, also was just made me think, okay, of course I’m carrying on his legacy by being a filmmaker, but it kind of became all encompassing. Important for me like to carry the torch. Before he passed away, I hadn’t really thought of it as like father-daughter just making movies.
00:01:20:13 – 00:01:38:11
We love to do the same thing. And so that was part of it. And he never like your original title. He would always say, great picture, terrible title. So he always got, my parents did mentors. They’re both filmmakers. So, right. So anyways, I thought he was, but as we called Sleep No More. So part of it.
00:01:38:11 – 00:01:58:03
And also, I didn’t like a few scenes I was, but I wanted out of the original and just a tighter ending. So that’s really was a combination of things. And some of the producers I was working with saying that, you know, we should really get this out there at reducers that I was working on, really, like.
00:01:58:05 – 00:02:01:17
John Cornelison
When I watched it today. It’s great. Always enjoyed it.
00:02:01:19 – 00:02:04:05
Thank you. Appreciate that.
00:02:04:07 – 00:02:18:05
John Cornelison
I guess that really ties into the second question and how to sleep. No more diff. Really different diff is different than phantom. Hello. In, you said you tighten it up a little bit. Is there no major structural changes to it?
00:02:18:07 – 00:02:49:05
No, there’s no major structural changes. There’s some scenes that are now cut that I didn’t think work. And the ending has a few missing sequences, like at the very end, I would say there’s sequences because they’re all it’s all kind of come together. So Sonali so you can feel that it’s ending, you know, there’s shots and there was some, voiceover that I just, I just put the whole sequence, so it’s not, it’s not really that different.
00:02:49:05 – 00:03:20:19
Again, this was more about bringing it back up really, especially in 2019. We didn’t have the access, online or video on demand or anything like we have now if need to go back five years before three or 2 or 3 years or even 2015. I mean, things were changing so quickly. I mean, it’s not that long ago that Netflix had its first series, you know, and we were like, rent it on anybody who’s a grown up remembers that.
00:03:20:19 – 00:03:37:22
Of course, my son probably doesn’t. 17 but we now have a really a lot more options for low budget independent film. So this was it wasn’t like a big, you know, so that’s kind of that was more than anything else trying to get it back.
00:03:38:00 – 00:03:43:11
John Cornelison
You say it wasn’t that big, but it just it’s just jam packed with talent though, all the actors and.
00:03:43:15 – 00:04:07:07
Well, yeah, that’s very important to me. But what I mean is the budget was low, was the studio was make independently. I raised myself and so and the budget was like under a knife the day I had lost for that. On what we were able to do and the actors really, I don’t think they got paid that much, I don’t remember.
00:04:07:09 – 00:04:12:03
Everybody was very fair. They knew what was okay.
00:04:12:05 – 00:04:20:18
John Cornelison
Well, can you tell me, about the process of creating the director’s cut? What challenges did you face in that.
00:04:20:20 – 00:04:23:01
Or the challenges of directors that.
00:04:23:03 – 00:04:31:02
John Cornelison
You know, making it, actually making it, you know, having to decide what to drop and what, you know, there’s no way to really add, I guess.
00:04:31:04 – 00:04:57:15
Oh, there was wasn’t many challenges, playing out the director’s cut, I would say it wasn’t a long process. You were able to do a fairly inexpensive way because I had some real great young guys there on the set. Savvy? I wouldn’t say there were any challenges. You know, there’s always a challenge for distribution. But my producing partners actually had started the distribution arm of their company, so decided to deal with that.
00:04:57:17 – 00:05:07:02
So I want to say there were a lot of challenges really, to getting it distributed. Because we did I know the company I was.
00:05:07:04 – 00:05:21:10
John Cornelison
Okay, I think you already told me the most significant change that you made, which is you took a whole scene out. I noticed that if you look at the cast list from Phantom Halo, there’s a lot more people in the cast list. This past season cast.
00:05:21:10 – 00:05:33:03
We didn’t find anybody we might have. Well, there might have been. Yeah. I don’t think we cut anybody out completely, but it’s the same cast list, so we.
00:05:33:05 – 00:05:37:09
John Cornelison
They don’t they don’t match up on IMDb. You know, I guess I haven’t filled it all in yet.
00:05:37:12 – 00:05:42:03
Oh, okay. No, no, there’s no casting changes. I’ll check the box.
00:05:42:05 – 00:06:06:01
John Cornelison
That’s, This is going real, really fast. I had ten questions. I cut it down to five. I didn’t want to go over. I loved you when you wrote this. How are the combining the Shakespeare or the counter posing the Shakespeare with the comic? Something like the Phantom Halo comic, sometimes considered, low, low art is the high art.
00:06:06:03 – 00:06:12:17
John Cornelison
And I thought that was really well done. If you have any comments on your inspiration for that or anything.
00:06:12:19 – 00:06:36:21
Oh, absolutely. I, my father considered television when I was growing up low art. Yes, of course, just changed that. I mean, there’s a lot of arguments for and against this, but for my family, it was about the time The Sopranos came out. The television became a whole different, especially for my father and my mom, like, my parents didn’t watch TV.
00:06:36:21 – 00:07:06:00
And so there was no TV in my father’s house. That was the comic book. That’s the exact parallel. But and then for Shakespeare, it was, golden age. So, and of course, some of the greats also in the 70s from the 70s, at least for my father. I mean, of course, there are some great songs in the 80s and 90s, but really, I was brought up with a very classic, the classics were it.
00:07:06:02 – 00:07:34:09
So that was kind of like Shakespeare’s spirit. You kind of get away with anything else morally, as long as you’re performing and studying and living in that creative space of high art. So that’s a tall order for a young girl like me. Yeah. You know, a different age, completely. I was a child of the city. I consider some films in the 80s.
00:07:34:09 – 00:07:58:09
Some of the greatest films are made so that, you know, my dad and I had ongoing arguments about that. I listen to hip hop from a very young age. Before it was popular. My father used to tell me that wasn’t music, and we had these massive white, it is the most popular music today, you know, so.
00:07:58:11 – 00:08:23:17
You know, so that that’s definitely where I draw my inspiration. The other thing is the criminality, the beats. I have some friends that were to my parents around houses. So, and that came back on me when they robbed my house. There’s a lot, you know, they, turning, you know, what was, when I was a child or a teenager?
00:08:23:19 – 00:08:53:07
A real hard heartbreak and, like, loss of trust of my best friends to, like, okay, this is how we can, you know, figure out or kind of move past it. Right? These are very interesting people. The reasons why they steal are not always for mine. Although, my friends, they didn’t steal to put food on their plate and pay rent, but so, you know, just looking into the reason why people, you know, steal in the first place.
00:08:53:09 – 00:09:13:07
John Cornelison
You know, I thought that was really interesting. In the movie, it seems like all three of the Emersons had a different method for getting out of their problem. Right? Dad was going to get drunk and gamblers way back in. Samuel was going to, well, we didn’t know what Samuel was doing, but Beckett was trying to criminal his way through.
00:09:13:09 – 00:09:21:19
John Cornelison
And so you don’t see that until the very end, you know? And I was like, oh, wow. You know, he had a plan, and he was working his plan the whole time, too.
00:09:21:21 – 00:09:46:14
Right? Absolutely. Yeah. All of them were going in different places depending on how they were treated by their parents. I mean, I think my sister and I are very different. We are we are treated differently by our parents. And so I that was something also explored. And, you know, the differences in the point of view from person siblings depending on, you know, Samuel was never forced to steal from their mother.
00:09:46:19 – 00:09:57:01
So that was kind of that explorer or those that, you know, exactly what we needed to please is that they felt like they needed money. So he stole from his own right.
00:09:57:01 – 00:09:59:16
John Cornelison
It,
00:09:59:18 – 00:10:19:06
Yeah. I mean, I’ve seen a lot of people do. Why? Usually it’s drug related, but I didn’t want to make this drug related. Right. That’s not what this all. Of course, it was about alcoholism, but, not really. I mean, I try not to emphasize that too much, but obviously we had to give up, right?
00:10:19:06 – 00:10:33:23
John Cornelison
Was just part part of his character. Right. And it wasn’t he didn’t dominate, I guess, what kind of you said the you had these movies, some of the movies you thought in the 80s or some of the greatest movies made? Can you tell me a few of them if you can come up with it.
00:10:34:03 – 00:11:00:01
The or the Blade Runner? I own the director’s cut. Five. That’s hard. If I’m going to think of those off the top of my head. If we look. Yeah, I would call John. Refuse. Just. Was your movie influential to me? Because I grew up watching his movies. It’s easier for me to pick out movies in the 70s.
00:11:00:03 – 00:11:26:19
Like, okay, that other part one and two. I grew up watching those movies with my mother, whereas at my father’s house, I watched movies John Ford and Howard Hawks, and I see, well, a lot of John Ford. And if you’re watching those movies when you’re really young, a lot of them don’t really step. They’re very complex. Even John Ford’s movies are pretty complex.
00:11:26:21 – 00:11:54:21
So I also really like the Apocalypse Now. I like The Deer Hunter. I always like really dark, dark films. I gravitated towards those. I don’t know. I don’t think my father ever talked about some of those. Other he disliked. They just weren’t his purposes for classic film. Of course I love the comedies. In the 80s, Eddie Murphy was like, my favorite.
00:11:54:23 – 00:12:23:13
I grew up with, and also the sort of that, Richard Pryor, he was friends with my dad. Makeup. But, you know, his stand up comedy was like, genius. But I didn’t get to see him, like, I was too young. And even if I would have thought it would have been totally appropriate to go see him when I was so young.
00:12:23:15 – 00:12:47:13
So the comedy tour this grade. I mean, I can rewatch any of those comedies, and I don’t really, I don’t really gravitate towards comedies. It’s much environment for hangovers. My favorite, probably my favorite comedy of all time. Doesn’t matter how many times I watch it, it’s just absolutely hilarious. Really. Larry? You, There you go.
00:12:47:15 – 00:13:04:01
And then, of course, the rise of Tom cruise. I mean, he’s of my generation. Thelma Louise, that’s one that comes to mind. Is one of the greatest films. If it was written by a woman, directed by Howard. I think you’re currently spot, right, I think.
00:13:04:03 – 00:13:05:23
John Cornelison
I’m not sure.
00:13:06:00 – 00:13:18:11
I’d have to look that up. I think it’s Ridley Scott. And then, of course, a lesser known movie that I. This is 92 now would be, True Romance.
00:13:18:12 – 00:13:19:10
John Cornelison
Oh, yeah.
00:13:19:12 – 00:13:40:04
And I didn’t know Quentin Tarantino was when I went to see the movie, but I made note of it in my head because I knew the writing was not necessarily Tom Scott. I know that there’s. So those are kind of those movies that really influenced me. I would say some people say that I was influenced by, you know, I really don’t think about it when I’m writing a movie.
00:13:40:04 – 00:13:57:03
Okay, so my influences, but of course, every movie I see I learn are affected by. But I’m not trying to mimic or imitate when I’m doing a film. But I was obviously very influenced by Tarantino.
00:13:57:05 – 00:13:58:13
John Cornelison
And he’s great.
00:13:58:15 – 00:14:17:10
If there resolution, I think about, oh, until somebody said it after I did. Yeah. Oh yeah. Okay. Sure. Everybody, you know, the ending’s quite, quite violent. But but I feel like the story warranted that, you know. So yeah.
00:14:17:12 – 00:14:29:17
John Cornelison
So are you a big fan of the neo? Oh, the neo noir from the 60s and 70s. Get Carter and stuff like that. I guess there maybe a little earlier, because.
00:14:29:18 – 00:14:38:01
I haven’t seen any of those movies, to be honest. The movies that I grew up with that were noir would be The Big Sleep (1946).
00:14:39:00 – 00:15:06:17
The classic and of course LA Confidential (1997). But that’s a newer movie. But I would say the only noir movie that comes to mind that I saw quite a bit was Quincy. But I didn’t grow up like the LA. I grew up watching Hitchcock and I grew up watching, Orson Welles. You know, John Ford, Howard Hawks was my favorite director when I was a young girl.
00:15:06:19 – 00:15:23:06
That was your own. Of course. You know, there’s also Frank Capra, so, I mean, I literally thought of movies over and over and over, but not noir films. I didn’t I didn’t know I was writing a war film until the director of photography told me this was a no, I don’t I’m like, okay, I don’t really think so.
00:15:23:08 – 00:15:44:08
That was one of the things that I think people were critical of was that I kind of mixed up the Donner’s. I wasn’t really thinking about that. It was like to be like far above, like, you know, he’s trying to escape through a comic, but there’s also a Shakespeare and actor. I didn’t think those are two right there for me.
00:15:44:08 – 00:16:06:14
Or like, this is what he loves, and he’s also a Shakespearean actor. And then of course, the crime part. But I think, you know, people do care about what’s going on and they make that work. And so I have thought about that a lot more specifically. And, you know, I can’t do 5 or 6 genres. Sometimes people are very critical of that.
00:16:06:14 – 00:16:27:14
And, you know, we read a couple of negative reviews and we have to learn from that. You know, we don’t have to say my movie was terrible, the for saying, you know, there’s a lot of artists who take reviews very heavily, very you know, I’ve talked to a few directors about a very famous director who had been really thrown by with.
00:16:27:16 – 00:16:55:02
But, yeah, I didn’t really think that this was a new movie until somebody else told. I don’t think in terms of, I’m not that academic. You know, I didn’t study. I didn’t study film. In film school, I, my parents showed me movies and then talked about how to make them, you know, and they didn’t really you didn’t really talk about what it was like if it was not.
00:16:55:04 – 00:17:14:07
I didn’t watch it, although I really did like, you know, The Shining (1980). I really did. But that’s like a brilliant horror movie. Yeah. But anyway. Yeah, I read that’s fantastic.
00:17:14:08 – 00:17:35:10
John Cornelison
That was my basically that was the fifth question I had about the Neo-Noir and the influences that you answered. All of that. Oh Oh. So let’s go. What what would you say? I mean, what have I not asked you that you think is important to be asked and they got to get out?
00:17:35:12 – 00:17:56:12
No, I mean, I think, look, I, I think I’ve been thinking a lot about how hard it is to be a female filmmaker and how hard it is to get movies made. And even for somebody like me who people might assume, the general public, the general population, that I have it easy and, what I would call a newborn baby.
00:17:56:13 – 00:18:16:01
I mean, I have never I hate that expression, of course, because I am a little baby. I did get my first job at 18 as a production assistant because my mother was a production designer on the film. When, let’s be honest, if I didn’t do the job, I would have gotten fired. They wouldn’t have cared if I didn’t do the job well.
00:18:16:01 – 00:18:37:01
If I didn’t stop every day off and work 15, 20 hours a day like everybody else. Actually, I was like, I had to work harder because I was a reflection of my parents. I wasn’t like a stranger. I had to work much harder. And my parents never said, you have to work harder because of x, Y, and Z.
00:18:37:01 – 00:18:57:00
They just say you have to work for a period. My mother always used to show me, like all the resumes you get on her desk because he’s an executive at Sony, our production from when I was like 20 and she’s like, you got to work your ass off because there’s a pile of resumes on my desk of people who will take your job.
00:18:57:00 – 00:19:19:18
Now, I wasn’t working directly for her, but what she meant was for was going to take the job. If you’re not doing your job well, it’s repetitive, I think. So. You know, I didn’t get my financing from somebody or in theater. I didn’t get my financing from somebody. An entirely flat. Yes. They have confidence that I know how to do it because I grew up in it.
00:19:19:19 – 00:19:41:01
But so I think for any young woman who’s trying to be a filmmaker, I would just give them the same advice that my parents did because there were so many times I wanted to was so hard. Daisy, I can be so second is just don’t give up. It’s something my mother said to me. Three, three, four.
00:19:41:01 – 00:20:06:06
She died in 2001, and I thought it was going really deep for me to get movies made and make my films, and it’s an exact opposite. It really is tough, and you have to just keep writing, keep making phone calls, keep pounding that pavement, and doing what you want to do. So I think that’s what I like to pass on to other women because I, I can talk to her.
00:20:06:06 – 00:20:35:04
I can also say for men that are starting out in this industry, some directors don’t give up either. But I have to speak specifically to women because I do feel like less movies are made every year by women, and I don’t make female centric film makers. I would I would surely do it for investing for thought, but I am just as capable of doing any kind of dumb I am I or what what focus of bond.
00:20:35:06 – 00:20:56:06
I’m glad. I’m glad the trend is going for female protagonists. That’s great. But, you know, we’re just as capable of doing this job, as any other person, whether that be male, female, trans, or non-binary. All the opposite of what I mean.
00:20:56:06 – 00:21:17:04
John Cornelison
But I’m really surprised that, you know, even I mean, now we think that eventually this would be going away. And it’s shocking to hear you say that in a way. I’m far, you know, I’m far away. I’m in Florida all the way from Hollywood and everything out there, but it just how long can this go on? We’re through here.
00:21:17:06 – 00:21:19:20
John Cornelison
Basically, people are being discriminated again.
00:21:19:22 – 00:21:36:11
It’s it’s it’s still like a couple years ago, I read a statistic that only 5% of films every year is marketed by women. I don’t know who’s deciding that, but, I’m not in those positions.
00:21:36:12 – 00:22:01:00
John Cornelison
Right. But I’m just an institutional thing. That’s right. Continued on, and I. I noticed that, when I started doing the film reviews, the the terrible ways that, actresses were just burned up and used up. And I never really noticed growing up and watching movies because I watched the same ones that you were talking about.
00:22:01:02 – 00:22:13:20
John Cornelison
The they’re mostly men story. Right? A few women thrown in here, and I’ve become very conscious of it. And, the more I review it, it’s kind of sad.
00:22:13:22 – 00:22:24:11
Well, I do think that is definitely changing that there’s especially over the last 5 to 10 years, there’s been so many more movies about it. Thank God.
00:22:24:13 – 00:22:37:19
John Cornelison
Now I thought I saw that the end is at the end of the movie. The car turned around. Was he going back to rescue, Mrs. Not Mrs. Lee, Miss Roth look like the car stopped and turned around from making things up.
00:22:37:20 – 00:23:05:21
Oh, no no, no. You mean the last shot at the last shot? No, no, no, miss Rose does get away. And that that’s actually the part that I set out where she’s in a taxicab. But no, now they go their separate ways. But she’s out alive. She does get out alive. She goes into the, the counterfeiting room and takes some money out and, like, cut that whole sequence out because I thought it was a stain.
00:23:05:21 – 00:23:09:08
It was. I was trying to focus on the two boys.
00:23:09:10 – 00:23:21:18
John Cornelison
Right. Which was. Which was really powerful, you know, like, it looked like no way out. And then it didn’t end like I thought it was going to end. I was very surprised when it when it ended differently.
00:23:21:20 – 00:23:24:06
Oh, really? How did you think it was going to end?
00:23:24:08 – 00:23:26:23
John Cornelison
I was badly, very poorly.
00:23:27:01 – 00:23:28:05
Exactly.
00:23:28:06 – 00:23:30:12
John Cornelison
I didn’t think anybody was going to leave the house.
00:23:30:14 – 00:23:54:21
Oh, no. No, I wouldn’t do that to an audience. I don’t like those kinds of endings. I’m. I’ve always been one that if an ending is very like, like life or more like life, I don’t that I want to see or I am still wanting to live in a fantasy. Right? Fiction in movies based on real life.
00:23:54:21 – 00:24:11:09
And of course, I would tell their authentic story. But if the if it’s a fictional story, I want some kind of feeling at the end. That’s not so depressing. Otherwise, I don’t that’s just me.
00:24:13:18 – 00:24:23:13
Like, I feel some, some. I like to feel good at the end of the movie, even if some people had passed away. That was sad about, you know, that’s the important thing.
00:24:23:15 – 00:24:50:00
John Cornelison
I think I was just watching, I was reading and watching about, killers kiss, which was Stanley Kubrick’s second independent, basically the second independent and last independent film. And they the studio made it put a happy ending on it. Oh, so the next movie was The Killers? The Killing. Excuse me. And and no happy ending for anybody in that one.
00:24:50:02 – 00:24:53:04
John Cornelison
So, yeah, I thought that was very interesting the way you ended it.
00:24:53:10 – 00:25:23:12
Well, yeah. Like the filmmaker has a different reason for making an ending. Like that. I think that’s super personal for me. I want people to at least come away with some. It doesn’t have to be like ecstatic and laughing and happy, especially down there doing comedy, because I’m trying to dominate with some kind of redemption or some kind of feeling of closure or for characters, bro.
00:25:23:13 – 00:25:56:19
I mean, of course I there’s a lot of movies that I love that don’t have a happy ending. I mean, but, you know, the ones that I really love have great ending. There are even quitting. And I love graveyard. They’re not. I mean, they’re all but they’re not like love is ending, you know? So it’s not just necessarily it doesn’t just mean a happy ending, but an ending that is pathetic in some way where you’re not feeling like cheated.
00:25:56:21 – 00:26:04:04
John Cornelison
So it completes the whole. Well, doc, I want to thank you very much for spending time with me today.
00:26:04:06 – 00:26:22:09
Everybody in the room, like crawling underneath the thing because I’m in his room and like he doesn’t I have to be on a big soundstage. And for him to like, say something before the fire to be able to yell at him. You’re not working long. You’re just. Anyway, this is like, this is my home, the independent world.
00:26:22:14 – 00:26:28:12
John Cornelison
Yes. I got I had to make arrangements to have dogs put in rooms and I that.
00:26:28:13 – 00:26:40:19
I that’s what I tried so I pardon me, pardon me the audience this is like out here. I’m usually in my living room but there’s people out there. So it is what it is.
00:26:40:21 – 00:26:52:15
John Cornelison
Okay. Well, again, thank you very much. I’m sure everybody on the show is really going to enjoy this. I appreciate your time. I love the film. And I’m going to put this out and see if I can get more attention to it.
00:26:52:17 – 00:27:01:01
Oh thank you John. I so appreciate talking with you. And I loved your questions. It was a pleasure. It was.
00:27:01:03 – 00:27:01:14
John Cornelison
Thank you.
00:27:01:19 – 00:27:03:18
Okay. Of course. No problem.
00:27:03:20 – 00:27:04:12
John Cornelison
Bye bye.
00:27:04:14 – 00:27:05:10
Bye.
00:27:05:12 – 00:27:24:00
John Cornelison
This film has a great cast, including Sebastian Roach, Rebecca Romain, Luke Klein, Tank and Thomas Brodie-Sangster. So put this great Neo-Noir thriller and your film-watching queue right away.
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