Finding the Art of Film Noir – Leslie Peterson Sapp

For our #NOIRvember celebration, I was very fortunate to have a conversation with artist and Visual
Noir creator Leslie Patterson Sapp. Leslie was born and raised in Portland, Oregon. She attended art school in New York City and graduated with a Bachelor of Fine Arts in 1991. She returned to Oregon
and has lived there ever since.

She creates narrative paintings and is deeply inspired by the past. For the last several years,
she has been focused on making art that is inspired by Film Noir.

Leslie Peterson Sapp Interview Transcript

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I’m very excited to

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be speaking with artist and Visual Noir creator Leslie Patterson Sapp.

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Her visit is perfectly timed to be available for #NOIRvember.

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Leslie was born and raised in Portland, Oregon.

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She attended art school in New York City and graduated with a Bachelor of Fine Arts

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in 1991.

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She returned to Oregon and has lived there ever since.

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She creates narrative paintings and is deeply inspired by the past.

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For the last several years, she has been focused on making art

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that is inspired by Film Noir.

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Leslie, welcome. I’m glad.

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I’m really excited to be talking to you.

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Thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

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The fans are going to get a lot out of this.

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Could you tell us a little bit about your background in art before Film Noir?

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Certainly.

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Well, as you said in the intro,

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I graduated from college in 1981.

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And then after that time, admittedly,
I have to say I just kind of fooled around

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quite a bit.

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I tried a lot of different artistic styles

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and just really kind of explored a lot and wasn’t very focused.

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And it was really
it wasn’t until 1990, until 2009

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that I really started to like focus and get serious on having an actual style.

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And the thing that I landed on at that time was doing artwork

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that was based on Vintage Snapshot and,

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and that was a really great series
to do for quite a long time.

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So I would find vintage snapshots like in, in a

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secondhand store, or maybe it was something from my family

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or friends, family or something like that.

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And I would create paintings on wood panel

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and those were really great
and very nostalgic.

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It’s similar to the Film Noir in the sense that it really is based in the past

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and is fairly nostalgic.

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But after a while
it became a little too limiting.

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And I really wanted to do something that had more imagination and more,

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more emotion and and so after

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experimenting, you know, taking another couple of years

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to just experiment with different things,

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I landed on Film Noir and really kind of found my own there.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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Now, when you said that the paintings, it was that like “No Vacancy.”

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or was it in the Film Noir or the vacancy one

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that.

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The Vacancy one is a Film Noir one. Yeah.

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But you know, it is out of all the Film Noir ones I’ve done, it’s

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the one that is the most similar to the vintage snapshots.

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In fact, if you go on my website, you’ll see a little thing that says

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Portfolio and has a dropdown menu and you’ll see

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it’ll say vintage snapshots because some of these works,

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I’m not doing them now, but some of them are still available.

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And so if you wanted to see what they look like, they’re still there.

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If they’re really nice,

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they go to the website after you finish watching this video and check them out.

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Oh, I was really interested when you talked about your class with Mark Andrus.

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In that class, you used a single film style

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in a single payer style of your choice to create a new work of art.

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Can you tell us about Lana Turner Lost in the Land of Beckman?

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Yeah, I will.

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Yeah, I’m glad you like this one.

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So the assignment that I was doing was you had to do it in collage.

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I couldn’t paint it.

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I had to do it in collage.

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I had to choose a single film image

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and then do it in the style of a painter
I like.

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And Max Beckmann is was a

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German expressionist painter,

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and his style is just completely and totally his own.

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And I really admire him, but he’s really different than what I do.

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And I wanted to dop some of his stuff.

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And for him, space inside of his

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paintings is not depicted in a straightforward fashion.

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It’s very distorted.

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And so rooms sometimes look like they’re collapsing or expanding

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or they’re starting to come apart a little bit or rocking, like on a ship,

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if you could imagine.

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And I guess it’s a very disquieting feeling when you’re looking at them.

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And so I took the film

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still from The Bad and the Beautiful (1952)with Lana Turner.

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Now, I know that’s not really a Film Noir, but the film still really is very noir.

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I mean, she’s like this world-weary woman and she’s just sitting there smoking cigarettes

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and it’s just a really great image.

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And so I took it and I tried to just sort of like make it more them

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and and I came up with

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that Lana Turner last and then planned of next segment

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and and it just really hit like I was just that was

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that was like, this is it this is this sounds really this feels really great.

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And so I ran with it and sense that.

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Wow, you really found what you were looking for.

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That’s amazing.

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You mentioned in your blog the term noir has been expanded

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to not just describe a moment in movie history,

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but to describe a sensibility that can be infused in any form of expression.

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I’m personally really interested in Dutch angles or extreme tilt.

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That’s a technique I use in photography,

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and I’m noticing several of your paintings.

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There were angles like that that you’re seeing, and in Film Noir,

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this is often used to make the viewer very uncomfortable.

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So what are your thoughts on, you know, I mean, it’s a commercial medium,

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but you’re using the angles and somebody might be put off by the angle

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at the same time.

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Yeah.

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Do you have any thoughts on why, you know, using the angles

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and how far you can tilt or before it becomes too much?

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Huh? That’s really an interesting question.

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Yeah, because you’re right, the

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extreme tilts,

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you know, I mean, they in in traditional painting,

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sometimes they’re just used to create a sense of space.

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Any time you have a diagonal, it just goes back in space.

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But when you get that horizontal line kind of tilting a little bit,

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it really does give you the impression

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that there’s something really wrong with the subject, right?

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With like the viewer or the painting.

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And yeah, I understand what you’re saying about the commercial aspect.

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And do I feel like I’m putting people off by having this?

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I don’t know the answer, I would tell you, because for me, you know,

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some people don’t care if their work is appealing to people at all.

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And then other people, you know, are extremely commercial

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and they and they want to only do things that please people.

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And I’d have to say I’m somewhere in between.

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It’s like I want people to like my work and I want it to be

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more than just sort of, you know, insipid,

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sort of sort of trying to please, you know, though, having the more

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expressive

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elements are is really important to me.

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Yeah. Okay.

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I think what’s funny is that for a while there I was.

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I’m sorry to interrupt you.

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For a while there I was going through this period where I was doing

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a lot of Film Noir pieces, but everything was the exact right angles,

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like the one you mentioned, Blue Room.

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If you look at it, everything in there is an absolute right angle.

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Okay.

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And I realized I was doing that too much and I had stopped.

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To I know it’s

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not about me today, but I took a Film Noir photography class out in Santa Fe.

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And after we went out and did our first night, me and my wife were a team

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and we went out and did our first night and all mine were 45 degree cock.

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And then we showed them to the instructor in the morning.

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She goes, Oh, that’s terrible.

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There’s way too much angle.

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And I said, Well, I want to feel like you’re

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Frank Bigelow when he walks into the police station and D.O.A. (1949)

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is whole world’s off kilter.

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So I love Dutch angles and big, awesome, uncomfortable angles

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on that.

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So have you continued that work?

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I still regularly photographer photograph.

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I’m done.

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I’m doing a bit and we go out and we do night photography and astrophotography

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and I need to get to a bigger town to do some more

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noir photography kind of hard around here.

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Because it’s so rural.

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Yet there’s not places where like masses

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of people gather.

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Okay.

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Film fatales have often been billed.

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I can’t talk them.

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Fatales have often been villainized for the methods used to attain their goal.

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I believe this is the only tool or agency that women have in these cases,

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in these films.

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And it’s not more sinister than a man beating up or shooting another man.

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And I and I know you had some information related to this.

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Do you have any thoughts on how Femme Fatales are portrayed?

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Yeah.

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I mean, I would agree with you.

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And I think that the people I mean, oftentimes

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they are presented as being like more evil than the man.

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But I think that has to do with like who’s writing the films

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and who’s reviewing the films and talking about the films

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rather than the actual story.

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And then, of course, oftentimes
they’ll put an ending on it.

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And like,

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I don’t know if you’ve ever heard

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this quote, I think it was I’ll Bring It Up, later of Human Desire (1954),

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which is the great movie with Glenn Ford and Gloria Grahame.

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And it has this kind of and they did this a lot of old movies.

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I’m sure.

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I’m sure you talk about this and you’re aware of this, but oftentimes they

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they put something on the end to make it okay with the censors, with the code.

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Right.

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And so sometimes

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those endings
are just like really strange.

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Like Glenn Ford.

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Yeah, no, go ahead.

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I said Glenn Ford, the way he drove away
in his train with his girlfriend

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back, his job back
and no criminal charges or anything.

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I thought this happened.

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Right then and.

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Yeah, and then Gloria Grahame’s like, Actually, I did it all.

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I wanted the money and I wanted this.

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I wanted that.

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And what Eddie Mueller

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said was, you know, they literally said
blame it on the woman

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like they had a hard time resolving it
with the codes that were necessary.

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And they just said blame it on the woman.

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And so they put this sort of weird ending.

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But the Femme Fatale,

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there’s a great quote that’s
attributed to Margaret Atwood that says

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The code is men
are afraid that women will laugh at them

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and women are afraid
that men will kill them.

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I saw that quote.

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The thing you have that on your site
right?

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Is that on your show?

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Actually, I don’t.

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But that means I do.

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I don’t know. You find stuff of mine.

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But, you know,

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I think that

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that that’s relevant in this case because
sometimes the men that are reviewing

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or making the films really
think of it as like being laughed out by

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or being made a fool of by women
is worse than violent. Oh.

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You know, yeah, yeah.

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The things change,
but they’re still interesting.

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Right, right, right.

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I don’t know.

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I hope they change.

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I hope everything’s changed

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going on here.

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I really love the painting.

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Blue Room
is it shows three views of the female

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and a kind of a shadowy
one dimensional male.

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Now, is it a regular part of your process?

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The dress, the porn design, the image
before you begin painting?

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Or was that something special
you did for that one?

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No, that’s really normal.

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That’s really normal.

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And that’s something

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that a lot of illustrators do
is that they dress up models

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and they pick pictures
and but I don’t really have models.

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00:11:15,332 –> 00:11:17,932
And so I will play all
the part. That’s spent. In

234
00:11:19,032 –> 00:11:20,499
men’s clothes.

235
00:11:20,499 –> 00:11:26,765
You know, I’ve had enough experience
drawing from the model live to be able

236
00:11:26,765 –> 00:11:30,099
to kind of translate myself
into a male figure,

237
00:11:31,199 –> 00:11:33,532
you know, just broaden the shoulders and,

238
00:11:33,932 –> 00:11:38,132
you know, and that and then I’m able
to kind of convert it into a male figure.

239
00:11:38,699 –> 00:11:41,299
Oh, and yeah, it is fun.

240
00:11:41,299 –> 00:11:44,499
In fact, now what I really do
is that I just turn on a video

241
00:11:45,632 –> 00:11:49,899
and I just kind of ham
it up with the costumes and the lighting.

242
00:11:50,265 –> 00:11:54,199
And then I go and I capture film
stills from the video afterwards.

243
00:11:54,499 –> 00:11:57,865
Okay, that’s very nice.

244
00:11:57,865 –> 00:12:01,399
In your blog, you said that, quote,
you consider the masters of film

245
00:12:01,399 –> 00:12:02,399
nor your teacher.

246
00:12:02,399 –> 00:12:05,299
My teachers,
as well as my inspiration, unquote.

247
00:12:05,632 –> 00:12:06,199
Would you tell us

248
00:12:06,199 –> 00:12:10,299
about your favorite cinematographer,
director, writer or other influencer?

249
00:12:11,065 –> 00:12:14,165
Some of my early influences,
like even before

250
00:12:14,165 –> 00:12:17,332
I started doing this
work, I loved Raging Bull (1980),

251
00:12:19,032 –> 00:12:22,132
which is a full black and white,
you know, from,

252
00:12:22,232 –> 00:12:27,232
you know, and I was just like,
wow, you know, I really love

253
00:12:27,232 –> 00:12:31,032
black and white movies with Raging Bull (1980), which was done in, what, 1980.

254
00:12:31,032 –> 00:12:32,199
Or 83?

255
00:12:32,199 –> 00:12:34,065
So, yeah.

256
00:12:34,065 –> 00:12:35,032
Scorsese.

257
00:12:36,199 –> 00:12:36,799
Yeah.

258
00:12:36,799 –> 00:12:38,599
Very depressing.

259
00:12:39,299 –> 00:12:42,632
Yeah.

260
00:12:42,632 –> 00:12:44,632
I love out of the past.

261
00:12:44,632 –> 00:12:47,732
And that was done by Nicholas Masuka.

262
00:12:47,832 –> 00:12:51,732
That out of the past is just.

263
00:12:51,732 –> 00:12:54,132
Just what a gorgeous film. Great.

264
00:12:54,499 –> 00:12:56,632
That’s my shirt here.

265
00:12:56,632 –> 00:12:59,365
Oh, yeah. Yeah.

266
00:12:59,365 –> 00:13:02,765
Is that such a
like when she walks into that bar

267
00:13:02,765 –> 00:13:05,432
and he’s been sitting in there,
it’s just like, wow.

268
00:13:06,399 –> 00:13:07,332
Yeah. Yeah.

269
00:13:07,332 –> 00:13:12,399
And then I know that when I watched the
I watched the remake.

270
00:13:12,399 –> 00:13:15,999
Oh, against all odds with the. Yeah.

271
00:13:16,099 –> 00:13:17,865
Jeff Bridges. You know.

272
00:13:17,865 –> 00:13:19,832
That’s the remake of it.

273
00:13:19,832 –> 00:13:23,165
Yeah, I saw that a long time
before I ever saw Out of the past.

274
00:13:23,165 –> 00:13:26,665
And when I saw all of the parts,
I just was totally blown away by it.

275
00:13:27,565 –> 00:13:28,299
Oh, really?

276
00:13:28,299 –> 00:13:29,199
You know, it’s funny.

277
00:13:29,199 –> 00:13:31,499
I don’t think I’ve ever seen against all
odds.

278
00:13:31,499 –> 00:13:34,265
I should, though,
because I really like Jeff Bridges a lot.

279
00:13:34,999 –> 00:13:35,799
And Rachel Ward,

280
00:13:36,932 –> 00:13:38,932
anyway, is I’ve never seen it

281
00:13:39,465 –> 00:13:41,465
and so I love

282
00:13:43,132 –> 00:13:43,299
that.

283
00:13:43,299 –> 00:13:46,632
Isn’t Kane Touch of Evil the killer?

284
00:13:47,132 –> 00:13:49,532
Mm hmm. That’s a really great.

285
00:13:50,065 –> 00:13:52,665
I mean, you just look at those shots
and you’re just, like.

286
00:13:53,665 –> 00:13:55,932
Right here.

287
00:13:56,532 –> 00:14:00,232
And when I was in college,
I got to see the cabinet of Dr.

288
00:14:00,232 –> 00:14:04,499
Caligari, which is from 1920,
and that’s a German expressionist.

289
00:14:04,499 –> 00:14:05,265
Don’t have you ever seen that?

290
00:14:05,265 –> 00:14:07,032
I know the film,
but I’ve never watched it.

291
00:14:07,032 –> 00:14:09,365
I’ve seen clips of it.

292
00:14:09,365 –> 00:14:10,965
To watch it. It’s great.

293
00:14:10,965 –> 00:14:13,665
It’s really cool
because it’s done completely on these

294
00:14:13,999 –> 00:14:16,232
hand-painted set

295
00:14:16,832 –> 00:14:18,799
that are unbuilt.

296
00:14:18,799 –> 00:14:21,932
Not believable, but they’re so effective.

297
00:14:22,232 –> 00:14:24,399
They work and it’s really fun.

298
00:14:24,399 –> 00:14:26,499
Well, what? Besides a Beckman?

299
00:14:26,499 –> 00:14:28,165
What about in the artist realm?

300
00:14:28,165 –> 00:14:30,799
Who were your artistic inspirations?

301
00:14:32,332 –> 00:14:33,532
Well,

302
00:14:34,399 –> 00:14:36,432
yeah, there’s a lot.

303
00:14:36,432 –> 00:14:39,132
It’s, you know, if you sent me

304
00:14:40,299 –> 00:14:43,665
the Edward Hopper film and, you know,

305
00:14:43,765 –> 00:14:48,365
I think that the comparisons between me
and Edward Hopper is just undeniable.

306
00:14:49,432 –> 00:14:51,565
So definitely Edward Hopper.

307
00:14:52,965 –> 00:14:54,032
And then

308
00:14:54,832 –> 00:14:56,899
so there’s Tamara de Lempicka.

309
00:14:57,332 –> 00:15:00,065
You know her? No, I don’t.

310
00:15:00,065 –> 00:15:01,965
Tamara de la Pinka is really,

311
00:15:01,965 –> 00:15:05,099
really great, though.

312
00:15:05,099 –> 00:15:09,032
You know, I think that
that I’m really influenced by Picasso,

313
00:15:10,132 –> 00:15:11,732
but not all of Picasso.

314
00:15:11,732 –> 00:15:14,332
One of the things about Picasso is that

315
00:15:15,532 –> 00:15:18,232
he you know, he had this amazingly wide

316
00:15:18,532 –> 00:15:21,632
range of of artistic styles.

317
00:15:22,165 –> 00:15:26,565
And so oftentimes
when people think of his work, he

318
00:15:27,432 –> 00:15:29,699
they think about the cubism.

319
00:15:29,699 –> 00:15:33,832
But he did a lot of etchings
that were more like

320
00:15:34,099 –> 00:15:37,965
based in classical mythology,
which are really amazing.

321
00:15:38,299 –> 00:15:41,899
And he uses the minutes over and over
and over again.

322
00:15:42,565 –> 00:15:46,032
And so he’s a
really great influence on me.

323
00:15:47,399 –> 00:15:48,765
And then

324
00:15:48,765 –> 00:15:51,999
also Egan
Schiller is a really great influence

325
00:15:51,999 –> 00:15:54,999
because he’s a great father
and a draftsman.

326
00:15:54,999 –> 00:15:57,032
And then you’re you’re

327
00:15:57,032 –> 00:16:00,032
sure it reminds me of a guy who’s
a contemporary right now.

328
00:16:00,032 –> 00:16:02,732
And his name is Thomas Anthony.

329
00:16:02,732 –> 00:16:05,199
And his work looks like your shirt.

330
00:16:05,965 –> 00:16:08,232
And it’s really it’s a really fantastic

331
00:16:08,699 –> 00:16:11,165
figure was a really great influence on me.

332
00:16:11,632 –> 00:16:12,499
Very classic.

333
00:16:12,499 –> 00:16:14,532
And Dogan

334
00:16:14,532 –> 00:16:15,865
not so much Van Gogh

335
00:16:15,865 –> 00:16:18,965
they oftentimes are put together
Van Gogh and Gardner oftentimes

336
00:16:19,465 –> 00:16:23,832
because they’re contemporaries and certain
similarities but but it’s really go on.

337
00:16:23,932 –> 00:16:27,165
That is really my big influence.

338
00:16:28,365 –> 00:16:30,832
And yeah, I can come up with more,

339
00:16:31,899 –> 00:16:35,532
but I can’t remember.

340
00:16:35,999 –> 00:16:39,432
Well, I’d like to read another quote
from your blog, and it says, quote,

341
00:16:39,432 –> 00:16:43,332
My heart is charged with longing, drama,
sexual tension, taboos

342
00:16:43,765 –> 00:16:47,832
and covert couplings like a private eye
snapping a picture through a window.

343
00:16:48,132 –> 00:16:49,598
We aspire people in places

344
00:16:49,598 –> 00:16:52,965
that are not supposed to be
or with someone they ought not to be with.

345
00:16:53,765 –> 00:16:57,265
You can say, I live vicariously
through my own art, unquote.

346
00:16:57,765 –> 00:16:59,432
Would you care to expound on that topic?

347
00:16:59,432 –> 00:17:02,832
Because that’s fascinating to me.

348
00:17:02,998 –> 00:17:04,398
Well, yeah,

349
00:17:06,165 –> 00:17:07,132
I think it’s true

350
00:17:07,132 –> 00:17:11,265
with a lot of things where, you know,
like I you know, for a lot of people,

351
00:17:11,265 –> 00:17:13,832
let’s just say, for example, it’s
cathartic.

352
00:17:14,632 –> 00:17:15,832
You know, it’s cathartic.

353
00:17:15,832 –> 00:17:20,465
You know, that’s part of what,
you know, art does for people.

354
00:17:20,465 –> 00:17:23,465
Art of all forms is that, you know, so

355
00:17:23,465 –> 00:17:26,698
maybe somebody likes to watch
more war films, right?

356
00:17:26,698 –> 00:17:28,498
But they don’t want to go into combat.
Right.

357
00:17:28,498 –> 00:17:30,998
Or maybe they like punk rock,
but they, you know,

358
00:17:31,032 –> 00:17:34,032
like live a middle class life or,
you know, that kind of thing.

359
00:17:34,032 –> 00:17:37,598
And I just think
that part of my attraction to film

360
00:17:37,598 –> 00:17:40,198
noir is the kind of over-the-top drama

361
00:17:40,665 –> 00:17:44,498
that can happen in that
and the ways in which people

362
00:17:45,632 –> 00:17:46,798
are they.

363
00:17:46,798 –> 00:17:48,932
If they’re not clever,
they think they’re clever

364
00:17:49,398 –> 00:17:52,832
and they’re trying to manipulate things
to their advantage.

365
00:17:52,832 –> 00:17:55,798
And so part of what’s really fun
about watching it is like,

366
00:17:56,565 –> 00:17:59,865
are they going to succeed
or not in their plot?

367
00:18:00,265 –> 00:18:00,798
Right.

368
00:18:00,798 –> 00:18:06,665
And and but in my real life,
it’s like I do not do that at all.

369
00:18:06,665 –> 00:18:08,698
I’m like, I’m just a really good job.

370
00:18:09,632 –> 00:18:10,765
I mean, I think that when I’m

371
00:18:10,765 –> 00:18:13,965
very like everybody, when they’re younger,
they kind of go through their drama.

372
00:18:14,132 –> 00:18:17,998
Yeah, but I’ve done a good job of kind
of making my life, like,

373
00:18:18,032 –> 00:18:19,865
very sort of simple and straightforward.

374
00:18:19,865 –> 00:18:23,632
And I hang out with people
who are very trustworthy and

375
00:18:24,898 –> 00:18:29,098
and well-meaning and
and so I tend to live a life

376
00:18:29,098 –> 00:18:32,132
of great positivity,
but I have this kind of macabre

377
00:18:33,632 –> 00:18:35,932
insensibility, right?

378
00:18:36,032 –> 00:18:41,298
And, you know, and that’s something
that a lot of people get out of films.

379
00:18:41,432 –> 00:18:41,865
Right.

380
00:18:41,865 –> 00:18:42,265
Right.

381
00:18:42,265 –> 00:18:43,598
I didn’t mean to imply

382
00:18:43,598 –> 00:18:46,532
that you were on the most wanted list
or anything out there.

383
00:18:47,198 –> 00:18:48,365
I know.

384
00:18:48,365 –> 00:18:52,132
I was talking to, you know,
your metaphorically anyway, but yeah.

385
00:18:52,332 –> 00:18:52,565
Yeah.

386
00:18:52,565 –> 00:18:56,132
So it is it does feed something
and you know, I like it like because

387
00:18:56,432 –> 00:19:00,665
there’s always somebody smarter
more or slipperier than yourself

388
00:19:00,665 –> 00:19:03,398
when you think you’re at the top
and you can beat everybody.

389
00:19:03,898 –> 00:19:05,565
The very few that can really do that.

390
00:19:07,032 –> 00:19:09,165
Yeah, well, and also to what end?

391
00:19:09,232 –> 00:19:12,298
I mean, usually when you’re when you’re
doing things that are manipulative

392
00:19:12,298 –> 00:19:15,498
and not straightforward,
you think that you’re winning something.

393
00:19:15,498 –> 00:19:19,432
But oftentimes in the end, because what
we really want, of course, is to be

394
00:19:20,432 –> 00:19:24,798
safe and to be loved and, you know,
to be recognized and appreciated.

395
00:19:24,798 –> 00:19:29,298
And you’re not going to get that if you’re
lying and cheating the people you know.

396
00:19:29,298 –> 00:19:32,732
But oftentimes it feels like
you’re going to the underground.

397
00:19:32,732 –> 00:19:34,498
I’m saying,
oh, I know exactly what you’re saying.

398
00:19:34,498 –> 00:19:35,532
Yes, absolutely.

399
00:19:35,532 –> 00:19:36,965
You know, because I love Film Noir.

400
00:19:36,965 –> 00:19:41,865
I try to watch one a day if I can find them, you know, so I do.

401
00:19:41,865 –> 00:19:45,132
But, you know,
but my idea of a good time is going

402
00:19:45,132 –> 00:19:48,465
in the backyard and cutting the grass.

403
00:19:50,732 –> 00:19:51,032
Okay.

404
00:19:53,198 –> 00:19:53,632
Well.

405
00:19:54,498 –> 00:19:55,532
That’s great.

406
00:19:55,532 –> 00:19:58,465
This is the first time I’ve heard
Shakespeare reference with Film Noir.

407
00:19:58,465 –> 00:20:01,865
You wrote Why is Shakespeare
still so popular after all this time?

408
00:20:02,198 –> 00:20:04,465
Is it because the stories
and characters are timeless?

409
00:20:05,665 –> 00:20:07,065
Could you expand on that a little bit?

410
00:20:07,065 –> 00:20:09,165
I mean, do you see, do you see?

411
00:20:09,498 –> 00:20:12,465
Is Shylock a character out of Shakespeare

412
00:20:12,465 –> 00:20:15,165
that might turn up in film
noir or something like that?

413
00:20:16,165 –> 00:20:18,998
Well, I think the noiriest of noir of

414
00:20:20,098 –> 00:20:22,198
Shakespeare is Macbeth.

415
00:20:22,198 –> 00:20:23,365
Okay.

416
00:20:23,365 –> 00:20:25,965
That’s about as noir as they get the plot

417
00:20:25,965 –> 00:20:29,698
and the fact that it all comes
collapsing down around them. And

418
00:20:31,465 –> 00:20:34,398
I mean, I’m mean in the sense know

419
00:20:34,398 –> 00:20:36,632
there’s been really good movie adaptations

420
00:20:36,632 –> 00:20:39,932
of Macbeth, but,
you know, so so they kill you basically.

421
00:20:39,932 –> 00:20:42,132
They’re usurpers.

422
00:20:42,132 –> 00:20:44,565
It was usurper and they had like a plot.

423
00:20:45,332 –> 00:20:46,698
And I just think it’s great.

424
00:20:46,698 –> 00:20:48,565
You know, that’s very noir. Yeah.

425
00:20:48,565 –> 00:20:52,532
And the fact that it doesn’t work
like they achieved some of their goals,

426
00:20:52,532 –> 00:20:57,298
but then they collapse, you know, madness
and all this stuff.

427
00:20:57,698 –> 00:21:01,565
It’s very a Film Noir Femme Fatale because they blame it all on the woman

428
00:21:02,365 –> 00:21:05,332
for, you know, for pushing him into killing the king.

429
00:21:06,632 –> 00:21:07,198
Yeah.

430
00:21:08,365 –> 00:21:12,798
But what I’m referring to directly when I’m talking about that part

431
00:21:13,198 –> 00:21:17,298
really, really has to do with the fact that the characters and the

432
00:21:17,298 –> 00:21:21,198
and the stories are so good with Shakespeare and so solid.

433
00:21:22,365 –> 00:21:24,932
And nowadays, you know,

434
00:21:25,598 –> 00:21:27,732
people do adaptations.

435
00:21:28,065 –> 00:21:32,732
They put them in modern dress, you know,
or they, you know, and that happens a lot.

436
00:21:32,765 –> 00:21:34,465
You know,
they put them in different situations

437
00:21:34,465 –> 00:21:38,065
and, you know, like maybe interwar Europe
or something like that.

438
00:21:38,298 –> 00:21:43,065
But the but the story is so solid and
the characters are so good, it translated.

439
00:21:43,065 –> 00:21:46,232
It doesn’t it doesn’t come across
as being dated or awkward.

440
00:21:46,998 –> 00:21:47,432
Yeah.

441
00:21:47,432 –> 00:21:49,765
And so that’s sort of what I mean
and I’m not really talking

442
00:21:49,765 –> 00:21:52,265
about an individual film
because of course with Film Noir,

443
00:21:52,632 –> 00:21:56,232
the quality of the films, they vary widely.

444
00:21:56,298 –> 00:21:59,732
I mean, there are some versions out there, you know, but the care,

445
00:21:59,798 –> 00:22:03,232
the stock characters
and the sort of general plot

446
00:22:05,265 –> 00:22:06,998
mechanisms are so

447
00:22:06,998 –> 00:22:12,798
solid that you can translate them
into all kinds of exterior.

448
00:22:13,232 –> 00:22:17,031
You know, you can change the genders
of the people, you can change the time

449
00:22:17,031 –> 00:22:20,198
and things like that
and still have a noir sensibility.

450
00:22:20,698 –> 00:22:22,265
Does that make sense? Yeah,
that makes perfect sense.

451
00:22:22,265 –> 00:22:25,831
I’m wondering if anybody who’s adapted
I just watched the Michael Fassbender

452
00:22:26,098 –> 00:22:30,198
Macbeth the other night from 2015
and it’s amazing.

453
00:22:30,198 –> 00:22:35,465
But I wonder if anybody’s actually taken that and put it into a Film Noir

454
00:22:36,231 –> 00:22:38,531
and just run it as a Film Noir?

455
00:22:38,931 –> 00:22:39,331
Yeah.

456
00:22:39,431 –> 00:22:42,465
I want to

457
00:22:42,465 –> 00:22:44,965
see a movie called Brick (2005).

458
00:22:44,965 –> 00:22:46,931
Brick

459
00:22:46,931 –> 00:22:51,431
Okay, Brick (2005), I saw it a long time ago, but it’s a really good movie. I don’t think so.

459
00:22:46,931 –> 00:22:51,431
Okay, Brick (2005), I saw it a long time ago, but it’s a really good movie

460
00:22:51,431 –> 00:22:55,498
because what it is, is that it’s a Film Noir that is set in a high school.

461
00:22:56,431 –> 00:22:57,031
Okay.

462
00:22:57,031 –> 00:22:59,198
And it and it’s very funny

463
00:22:59,998 –> 00:23:02,931
because it’s it’s completely straight,

464
00:23:03,598 –> 00:23:05,765
like the talk noir talk

465
00:23:06,198 –> 00:23:08,831
and they and it’s a noir like plot line.

466
00:23:08,831 –> 00:23:10,065
And there’s like Mr.

467
00:23:10,065 –> 00:23:13,298
Big, who just graduated last year,
still living in his mom’s house.

468
00:23:13,298 –> 00:23:16,965
I mean, it’s very funny,
but it’s done really, really well.

469
00:23:16,965 –> 00:23:18,898
And I would recommend Brick is a good one.

470
00:23:18,898 –> 00:23:19,498
Okay.

471
00:23:19,498 –> 00:23:21,198
Oh, I’ll have to look that one up,

472
00:23:21,198 –> 00:23:24,398
but sounds interesting, but obviously you watch Film Noir.

473
00:23:24,931 –> 00:23:29,698
I asked Alan K Rode this and he wouldn’t tell me what his favorite movie was,

474
00:23:29,698 –> 00:23:34,498
but do you have a favorite Film Noir, Femme Fatale or a homme fatale?

475
00:23:34,498 –> 00:23:35,431
And for reference.

476
00:23:35,431 –> 00:23:38,465
Yeah. Born to Kill. I love that.

477
00:23:38,465 –> 00:23:40,798
Yeah. You tell me yours is you’re.

478
00:23:40,798 –> 00:23:45,231
Going to kill 1947 with Claire, Trevor
and Laurence Tierney there.

479
00:23:45,331 –> 00:23:50,731
They’re so bad that both so bad.

480
00:23:50,731 –> 00:23:50,898
Yeah.

481
00:23:50,898 –> 00:23:55,298
You got like homme fatale and the femme
fatale like wrapped up in the same movie.

482
00:23:55,331 –> 00:23:55,798
Yeah.

483
00:23:56,298 –> 00:23:59,998
The fact that they’re, they’re kind of
going at each other and they’re

484
00:24:00,931 –> 00:24:03,031
conspiring together at the same time.

485
00:24:03,231 –> 00:24:04,631
They’re like animals, you know?

486
00:24:04,631 –> 00:24:07,865
And a they’re really,
they really are tough.

487
00:24:07,865 –> 00:24:08,665
Yeah.

488
00:24:08,731 –> 00:24:12,931
Well, so do you have any favorite
that you’d like to throw out?

489
00:24:12,998 –> 00:24:14,031
Yeah.

490
00:24:14,131 –> 00:24:14,731
Yeah.

491
00:24:14,731 –> 00:24:20,465
My favorite movie probably of all time, actually, is Vertigo (1958), you know.

492
00:24:20,831 –> 00:24:23,831
You know, some people say Vertigo (1958) is not really a Film Noir, which is

493
00:24:24,931 –> 00:24:25,898
fine.

494
00:24:25,898 –> 00:24:28,531
Eddie Muller says it’s a Film Noir,

495
00:24:28,531 –> 00:24:31,731
so I’m willing to take his word, but at least it’s noir adjacent.

496
00:24:31,731 –> 00:24:33,131
Like, it’s very noir.

497
00:24:33,131 –> 00:24:34,798
But that is my favorite movie.

498
00:24:34,798 –> 00:24:37,365
Yeah. That’s a good movie.

499
00:24:37,431 –> 00:24:38,731
Yeah. Yeah.

500
00:24:38,731 –> 00:24:40,965
There’s something about the longing and

501
00:24:41,998 –> 00:24:43,831
the kind of unrequited.

502
00:24:43,831 –> 00:24:45,365
I mean, because it’s not unrequited.

503
00:24:45,365 –> 00:24:46,265
It’s unrequited love.

504
00:24:46,265 –> 00:24:48,898
But really what it is,
is unrequited dream.

505
00:24:48,898 –> 00:24:53,731
Both of them have a dream
of what they think love is.

506
00:24:53,731 –> 00:24:56,065
And they and they’re almost touch it,
but they can’t.

507
00:24:56,665 –> 00:24:59,831
And then there’s a crime element
and it’s really great.

508
00:25:00,098 –> 00:25:01,731
But that’s my probably my favorite

509
00:25:02,931 –> 00:25:03,931
film.

510
00:25:03,931 –> 00:25:06,931
But my favorite homme fatale
is without a question.

511
00:25:07,231 –> 00:25:10,298
Joseph Cotton in

512
00:25:10,298 –> 00:25:13,265
and Shadow of Doubt. Do

513
00:25:13,265 –> 00:25:14,465
you mean? I’ve seen that one.

514
00:25:14,465 –> 00:25:18,065
You know, I’ve watched part of it,
but I haven’t actually finished it.

515
00:25:18,065 –> 00:25:22,131
But it just came back up again because
I was looking at some October stuff

516
00:25:22,131 –> 00:25:26,765
and the Doctor X and The Return of Doctor
X and he was his character

517
00:25:26,765 –> 00:25:30,231
was based on one of the serial killers
who was running around at the time.

518
00:25:30,231 –> 00:25:32,465
Am I thinking of the right movie?

519
00:25:32,465 –> 00:25:32,765
I believe so.

520
00:25:36,131 –> 00:25:39,631
Maybe it’s so Doctor
X, isn’t that an earlier film?

521
00:25:39,698 –> 00:25:41,098
Yeah, that was much earlier.

522
00:25:41,098 –> 00:25:45,098
And then Humphrey Bogart was in The Return
of Doctor X and they mentioned it.

523
00:25:45,098 –> 00:25:49,031
I was reading an IMDB
and they said that a Joseph Cotten,

524
00:25:49,031 –> 00:25:53,765
in Shadow of a Doubt,
was based on one of the killers.

525
00:25:53,765 –> 00:25:54,998
Oh, I didn’t know that.

526
00:25:54,998 –> 00:25:57,465
I didn’t know that. Yeah, yeah.

527
00:25:57,465 –> 00:25:58,031
But yeah.

528
00:25:58,031 –> 00:26:01,598
In this movie and it’s funny
because I saw this movie a long time ago

529
00:26:01,598 –> 00:26:06,165
before I really knew about before
I’d ever seen a lot of old movies.

530
00:26:06,898 –> 00:26:09,831
And, and so I always thought of Joseph
Cotton as like,

531
00:26:09,831 –> 00:26:13,598
this really like sexy leading man

532
00:26:13,598 –> 00:26:17,665
who was, like, so bad and lured women

533
00:26:17,665 –> 00:26:20,431
into into terrible situations.

534
00:26:20,898 –> 00:26:22,331
And then I see him since then,

535
00:26:22,331 –> 00:26:25,598
and I realized that he
that was unusual role for him.

536
00:26:26,131 –> 00:26:27,665
You know, he was a versatile actor.

537
00:26:27,665 –> 00:26:30,665
But, you know, oftentimes he played
like that, kind of like nice guy.

538
00:26:31,031 –> 00:26:32,331
Yeah, right. Right.

539
00:26:32,331 –> 00:26:34,531
He was, you know, he was a.

540
00:26:34,531 –> 00:26:36,531
Regular like in Citizen Kane.

541
00:26:36,531 –> 00:26:39,931
You mentioned earlier in The Third Man,
I believe he was.

542
00:26:40,598 –> 00:26:43,131
Yeah. A decent guy.

543
00:26:43,465 –> 00:26:46,698
Just a very decent person in this movie
he was bad, bad, bad.

544
00:26:46,731 –> 00:26:49,531
In the best way.

545
00:26:49,831 –> 00:26:50,798
He’s great.

546
00:26:50,798 –> 00:26:55,565
And then my favorite Femme Fatale is probably Gloria Graham in Human Desire (1954)

547
00:26:55,931 –> 00:26:58,065
She’s so was so good.

548
00:26:59,298 –> 00:27:02,798
And you said, yeah, I watched that.

549
00:27:02,798 –> 00:27:04,365
The one where she died.

550
00:27:04,365 –> 00:27:07,098
Film Stars Don’t Die in Liverpool.

551
00:27:07,831 –> 00:27:09,298
No, I have not seen that.

552
00:27:09,298 –> 00:27:10,865
Watch it. But it’s sad.

553
00:27:10,865 –> 00:27:15,331
I mean, the actress does such a good job.

554
00:27:15,698 –> 00:27:18,765
Yeah, that being Annette Benning, she does such a great job

555
00:27:18,765 –> 00:27:21,898
in that film and it’s just gut wrenching.

556
00:27:21,898 –> 00:27:23,798
But good, yeah.

557
00:27:23,965 –> 00:27:26,298
Yeah, I should watch that. Yeah, that.

558
00:27:26,365 –> 00:27:27,565
That’s a good one.

559
00:27:27,565 –> 00:27:30,998
But I think that part of the reason
why I like her role

560
00:27:30,998 –> 00:27:34,098
as the Femme Fatale in Human Desire (1954) is because she’s

561
00:27:34,098 –> 00:27:36,798
both a perpetrator and a victim at the same time.

562
00:27:37,498 –> 00:27:40,731
And I really identify with her in a way like when her husband

563
00:27:40,731 –> 00:27:46,031
is like leaning on her to go talk to this guy to get his job back.

564
00:27:46,465 –> 00:27:48,931
And she says, you know, I’d rather not.

565
00:27:48,931 –> 00:27:51,398
And at that moment,
she says, I’d rather not.

566
00:27:51,764 –> 00:27:54,498
You know,
that something happened in her past.

567
00:27:54,498 –> 00:27:59,064
You know with this guy where she’d been
victimized or something like that.

568
00:27:59,064 –> 00:27:59,731
But her husband.

569
00:28:00,931 –> 00:28:02,298
Was pushing. Her.

570
00:28:02,298 –> 00:28:04,531
And then and then she does it.

571
00:28:04,531 –> 00:28:07,931
And then she turns around
and then she uses her same feminine wiles

572
00:28:07,931 –> 00:28:12,298
to try and get Glen Ford
character to kill her husband, you know,

573
00:28:12,298 –> 00:28:16,831
and so she she’s she’s a victim
and she’s a perpetrator at the same time.

574
00:28:17,531 –> 00:28:19,564
And I think, yeah, that’s

575
00:28:21,031 –> 00:28:22,764
that character there. Yeah.

576
00:28:22,764 –> 00:28:26,364
How often are you mentioned on your site
that you’d become interested

577
00:28:26,431 –> 00:28:28,664
in art related to archaeology

578
00:28:28,664 –> 00:28:32,698
and talked about the book and the movie of The Dig (2021).

579
00:28:33,131 –> 00:28:36,798
Can you comment on that for us
and where you’re going in that direction?

580
00:28:38,331 –> 00:28:41,331
Do you want me to talk about the film or the book or the art?

581
00:28:41,764 –> 00:28:42,831
Oh, which one?

582
00:28:42,831 –> 00:28:44,364
The where you’re going with your art.

583
00:28:44,364 –> 00:28:46,198
I would be, you know,

584
00:28:46,198 –> 00:28:49,998
what interests you about archaeology and why are you drawn to that?

585
00:28:49,998 –> 00:28:53,764
And, you know, the secret
that us professional archaeologists

586
00:28:53,764 –> 00:28:56,064
know that some days it’s just ditch digging,

587
00:28:57,264 –> 00:28:58,431
moving wheelbarrows full of

588
00:28:58,431 –> 00:29:00,464
dirt up hills and stuff like that.

589
00:29:01,664 –> 00:29:05,331
You don’t paint that, though.

590
00:29:05,331 –> 00:29:09,298
I can only imagine that
I just look at people in like,

591
00:29:09,498 –> 00:29:11,798
you know, my archaeology shows or whatever.

592
00:29:11,798 –> 00:29:13,498
And I just imagine with their backs

593
00:29:13,498 –> 00:29:17,131
and their shoulders feel like I’m just like, oh, my God.

594
00:29:17,564 –> 00:29:21,131
Well, I think it’s so fascinating

595
00:29:21,131 –> 00:29:23,698
that you’re that you’re an archaeologist

596
00:29:25,531 –> 00:29:29,131
and a Film Noir buff at the same time, just like I threw that out there

597
00:29:29,131 –> 00:29:32,131
on my blog
post a year ago or something like that.

598
00:29:32,131 –> 00:29:35,331
And then you found it and you’re like, it’s amazing.

599
00:29:36,331 –> 00:29:39,631
But so basically, I have to say

600
00:29:39,631 –> 00:29:43,498
honestly I have never been on a dig.

601
00:29:43,498 –> 00:29:47,398
And so my fascination has, because of over

602
00:29:47,398 –> 00:29:50,564
the years, I’ve just gotten more and more and more.

603
00:29:50,931 –> 00:29:53,464
I just I consume like

604
00:29:53,798 –> 00:29:58,231
books, magazines and shows about archaeology.

605
00:29:58,231 –> 00:30:02,498
And I and I just keep finding it fascinating, fascinating, fascinating.

606
00:30:02,498 –> 00:30:06,364
And so I started to think, well, you know, this is something that I should

607
00:30:07,698 –> 00:30:09,498
be, you know,

608
00:30:09,498 –> 00:30:12,531
trying to expect, you know, because it’s sustained, you know,

609
00:30:12,531 –> 00:30:14,764
it hasn’t been like, oh, yeah, I was into that for a little while.

610
00:30:14,764 –> 00:30:17,131
And now it feels like
this has been going on

611
00:30:17,131 –> 00:30:20,731
for over a decade where I’ve gotten more and more and more interested in it

612
00:30:21,064 –> 00:30:23,964
and so I don’t really know

613
00:30:23,964 –> 00:30:27,464
because it’s just it’s right
at the very beginning.

614
00:30:27,931 –> 00:30:30,631
I’m looking over here because I’m looking at this little pile of

615
00:30:32,898 –> 00:30:34,498
materials

616
00:30:34,498 –> 00:30:37,231
that I’ve just started to play with.

617
00:30:37,231 –> 00:30:38,464
Okay.

618
00:30:38,464 –> 00:30:41,164
You know, and so

619
00:30:41,164 –> 00:30:43,764
I think that there’s something about

620
00:30:43,764 –> 00:30:47,164
having something emerge out of the dirt

621
00:30:47,164 –> 00:30:49,698
that is so fascinating to me.

622
00:30:49,698 –> 00:30:53,998
And then there’s something about just history and the quest

623
00:30:54,231 –> 00:30:58,164
to be able
to learn something about ourselves

624
00:30:58,998 –> 00:31:02,698
by things that you can’t know,
because history is cool

625
00:31:02,698 –> 00:31:05,431
when you read, you know, about what people have written.

626
00:31:05,731 –> 00:31:09,131
But there’s something
so wonderful about it’s almost like

627
00:31:09,331 –> 00:31:12,931
communicating with a ghost in a way, you know what I mean?

628
00:31:12,931 –> 00:31:13,998
Yeah, I do.

629
00:31:13,998 –> 00:31:16,531
Because it’s not written,
you have to find out.

630
00:31:16,898 –> 00:31:20,498
And so I’m trying to figure out how am I going to tell?

631
00:31:20,498 –> 00:31:22,131
I’m sort of thinking about layers

632
00:31:23,198 –> 00:31:26,164
of things of like semi-transparent layers

633
00:31:26,164 –> 00:31:29,331
where you can see different things through the layers on a flat,

634
00:31:29,531 –> 00:31:33,298
so it’ll be flat,
but sort of like different layers.

635
00:31:33,298 –> 00:31:34,998
That’s what I’m thinking about.

636
00:31:34,998 –> 00:31:38,098
That’s very interesting.

637
00:31:38,098 –> 00:31:42,064
I sent you the two pictures, but there’s another one where where it’s got

638
00:31:42,064 –> 00:31:47,064
archaeologists at the top of the ground and below that are below the ground.

639
00:31:47,064 –> 00:31:50,398
And around them are,
you know, colonial soldiers.

640
00:31:50,398 –> 00:31:54,131
And there’s an Indian woman in basically under the ground

641
00:31:54,164 –> 00:31:57,531
offering a pot up to the archaeologist.

642
00:31:57,531 –> 00:32:00,664
And yeah, I’ll try to find that one and send it out, too.

643
00:32:00,931 –> 00:32:02,764
But is it the same artist?

644
00:32:02,764 –> 00:32:03,798
It is the same artist.

645
00:32:03,798 –> 00:32:08,298
He had a contract and they used him almost exclusively.

646
00:32:08,298 –> 00:32:09,064
But yeah.

647
00:32:09,064 –> 00:32:13,598
And so sometimes people see it and they, they understand, oh, this is all the stuff

648
00:32:13,598 –> 00:32:14,164
that’s in there.

649
00:32:14,164 –> 00:32:14,798
And they’re like,

650
00:32:14,798 –> 00:32:18,364
other people see it and go, why is that woman hand in that pot up, you know.

651
00:32:18,364 –> 00:32:20,398
But I see.

652
00:32:20,398 –> 00:32:23,098
But yeah, I’ll find a picture of that and send it to you

653
00:32:23,731 –> 00:32:26,431
because it is kind of multilayered.

654
00:32:26,431 –> 00:32:31,631
I’m curious, why did you decide to become an archeologist?

655
00:32:31,731 –> 00:32:35,431
My mother drug me to mound sites

656
00:32:35,464 –> 00:32:41,431
and places like that all my life and just was fascinated by the culture.

657
00:32:41,431 –> 00:32:47,264
And then I started as a business major and I was taking the anthropology

658
00:32:47,264 –> 00:32:51,598
elective and I was making Cs and business and As in anthropology and

659
00:32:51,598 –> 00:32:53,498
I took it as a sign and

660
00:32:54,598 –> 00:32:56,131
ended up working, you know, started

661
00:32:56,131 –> 00:33:01,264
I went on a volunteer dig for like a week and that’s it, you know, took off and

662
00:33:02,298 –> 00:33:05,331
the 37 year worth of it.

663
00:33:05,331 –> 00:33:06,798
That’s amazing.

664
00:33:06,798 –> 00:33:07,964
That’s really cool.

665
00:33:07,964 –> 00:33:08,198
Yeah.

666
00:33:08,198 –> 00:33:11,798
There are some digs around here

667
00:33:11,798 –> 00:33:15,398
that I know that if I
if I wanted to focus on it,

668
00:33:15,398 –> 00:33:17,931
I can become a volunteer and get trained and things like that.

669
00:33:17,931 –> 00:33:20,931
And it’s something I’m considering
but right now

670
00:33:20,931 –> 00:33:24,997
I’m just trying to scrape together enough hours to be an artist then.

671
00:33:25,164 –> 00:33:27,897
Understood? Absolutely understood.

672
00:33:28,097 –> 00:33:33,164
You know what you said earlier, we were excavating in Saint Augustine

673
00:33:33,164 –> 00:33:36,664
at the fort there, the Spanish fort in Saint Augustine, Florida.

674
00:33:36,664 –> 00:33:40,531
And we got down to a coquina floor, which is a kind of stone

675
00:33:40,531 –> 00:33:41,964
that goes around there.

676
00:33:41,964 –> 00:33:44,597
And we were cleaning it
and the guy was with me goes, you know,

677
00:33:44,997 –> 00:33:48,364
we’re the first people to touch this in 300 years.

678
00:33:49,264 –> 00:33:51,031
Now it’s like, that’s pretty good.

679
00:33:51,031 –> 00:33:52,664
Pretty good. Yeah, yeah,

680
00:33:53,731 –> 00:33:55,231
yeah, yeah.

681
00:33:55,231 –> 00:33:56,931
That’s just fascinating.

682
00:33:56,931 –> 00:33:58,064
I think that

683
00:34:00,697 –> 00:34:04,364
just yeah, there’s something about learning about us

684
00:34:04,364 –> 00:34:08,997
as people by what we learn and, you know, by what we leave in the ground.

685
00:34:08,997 –> 00:34:10,397
And I’m fascinated by that.

686
00:34:10,397 –> 00:34:13,964
I’m just fascinated by the whole process, the deterioration,

687
00:34:14,131 –> 00:34:16,197
not just,
you know, like this thing was built,

688
00:34:16,464 –> 00:34:19,397
but also how how it deteriorates when it’s in the ground

689
00:34:19,397 –> 00:34:21,631
or you have a structure and the

690
00:34:21,631 –> 00:34:24,764
and then archaeologists are able to figure out, like, was it burned?

691
00:34:24,764 –> 00:34:27,331
Did it collapse? Was it recycled?

692
00:34:27,331 –> 00:34:31,931
Was it dismantled and used was the stones used in a different structure?

693
00:34:31,931 –> 00:34:33,764
And where is that structure?

694
00:34:33,764 –> 00:34:36,931
And so that’s almost like it’s almost like a mystery novel.

695
00:34:37,064 –> 00:34:39,597
It is a kind of detective thing.

696
00:34:39,597 –> 00:34:42,464
Did I tell you that I am writing my first archaeological mystery?

697
00:34:42,864 –> 00:34:45,631
It was about to ask you about that, How’s that going?

698
00:34:45,831 –> 00:34:48,331
It went down to the editor last week
and then

699
00:34:48,964 –> 00:34:50,864
they lost power down in South Florida.

700
00:34:50,864 –> 00:34:54,031
So I don’t know what I’m going to get get it back from her, but

701
00:34:54,397 –> 00:34:57,897
hopefully six months to a year, it’ll be ready.

702
00:34:57,897 –> 00:35:01,731
You know, and I get the archaeological

703
00:35:02,531 –> 00:35:06,931
archaeology magazine
from the American Institute of Archaeology

704
00:35:07,164 –> 00:35:08,931
and know I’m sure you’ve seen that in the back.

705
00:35:08,931 –> 00:35:12,597
Oftentimes,
I do see people with little advertisements

706
00:35:12,597 –> 00:35:16,864
for their for their novels, archaeology mystery novels.

707
00:35:16,864 –> 00:35:18,364
I mean, that’s the thing.

708
00:35:18,364 –> 00:35:20,631
I don’t know that I’ll keep that in mind. Oh.

709
00:35:21,397 –> 00:35:22,797
Yeah. You know. Yeah.

710
00:35:24,364 –> 00:35:24,697
Yeah.

711
00:35:24,697 –> 00:35:26,264
I mean,

712
00:35:26,464 –> 00:35:28,497
you know, a little ad I.

713
00:35:28,497 –> 00:35:30,331
Have not seen the ads, I’ve seen the magazines,

714
00:35:30,331 –> 00:35:33,531
but I didn’t notice the ads, you know, and now I have to look that up.

715
00:35:33,564 –> 00:35:34,931
That’s great.

716
00:35:35,131 –> 00:35:37,831
Yeah, the thing right.

717
00:35:37,831 –> 00:35:41,397
Well, my last question and I got this from Rachel Maddow, but

718
00:35:41,664 –> 00:35:47,231
what did I forget to ask you?

719
00:35:47,231 –> 00:35:48,631
She’s great.

720
00:35:48,764 –> 00:35:51,331
She’s great a interviewer isn’t she. And what did I forget?

721
00:36:08,564 –> 00:36:10,431
I think your questions have been great.

722
00:36:10,431 –> 00:36:11,364
Appreciate it.

723
00:36:11,364 –> 00:36:11,864
Okay.

724
00:36:11,864 –> 00:36:13,097
Would you please tell the audience

725
00:36:13,097 –> 00:36:16,064
where they can find your artwork and any social media channels

726
00:36:16,064 –> 00:36:18,897
you want them to follow you on or anything?

727
00:36:18,897 –> 00:36:21,097
Yes. Yes, I’d be great.

728
00:36:21,097 –> 00:36:23,164
So my website is very simple.

729
00:36:23,164 –> 00:36:27,297
It’s LeslieSapp.com and so that’s easy.

730
00:36:27,631 –> 00:36:31,297
And at the on that site you will find little icons

731
00:36:31,297 –> 00:36:33,931
where you can link up to my social media site

732
00:36:34,697 –> 00:36:38,197
and they are different names, but they always have a Leslie Peterson Sapp.

733
00:36:38,197 –> 00:36:44,064
So with Instagram, it’s Leslie_Peterson_Sapp.

00:36:44,064 –> 00:36:46,831
On Facebook, it’s Leslie Peterson Snap fine art.

735
00:36:46,964 –> 00:36:49,764
And I’m on Twitter at Peterson Snap.

736
00:36:50,331 –> 00:36:52,131
Okay, fantastic.

737
00:36:52,131 –> 00:36:54,364
Well, look, I really appreciate you coming.

738
00:36:54,397 –> 00:36:56,064
That was a lot of good information.

739
00:36:56,064 –> 00:36:58,664
I think everybody’s going to get a lot out of this and it

740
00:36:59,131 –> 00:37:03,164
and I’m excited to see where you go from here.

741
00:37:03,164 –> 00:37:04,531
I really appreciate you coming.

742
00:37:05,697 –> 00:37:07,931
Thank you so much for asking me.

743
00:37:07,931 –> 00:37:10,264
And I’ve had a great time. Oh, thank you.

744
00:37:10,464 –> 00:37:11,131
All right.

745
00:37:11,331 –> 00:37:11,764
All right.

746
00:37:11,764 –> 00:37:12,464
Thanks so much.

747
00:37:12,464 –> 00:37:14,631
I really appreciate you asking me to.

748
00:37:15,197 –> 00:37:17,364
Talk to you later. Bye bye. Okay. Bye bye.